Bring back "Pinnacle" and "Uncaged" in Team Swat!!!!

[mikeyr]

So I was on vacation for the past week or so, and got logged back into Halo Reach to play me some Team Swat. For the past three days, the selections have been nothing but either "Asylum" or "Reflection", with a small scattering of "Sword Base" and "Countdown." I've probably played 50+ games in Team Swat and Pinnacle or Uncaged have never even been an option, which is disappointing because they are my two favorite maps.

 

So I did a little digging and found out for some reason that the April update removed these maps? Why? Why remove choices from the consumer? I am HIGHLY disappointed in this decision. I know about all the arguments against these maps (spawn killing, etc) but if you don't like the maps, then don't vote for them, but at least give us the option to play them!! So now we are basically stuck with so few maps as to make the game almost unplayable. I can only take so much Reflection and Asylum over and over again it gets very repetitive quickly. I’m thinking of switching over to another game and not wasting my time on the 15^th consecutive game of Reflection.

 

How can we get these maps restored ASAP? Anyone with me? Or does everyone hate these maps too? Is there someone here we can discuss this with?

[One]

From what I understand, the updates rely on community feedback. So if the maps are removed, it's because the majority of the community wanted them gone. So unless for some reason they want them back next update, they will most likely be staying out.

[mikeyr]

So that leaves us pretty much with two maps to play, either Asylum or Reflection? You always get one or the other on the initial selection screen, and then the other pops up on the next screen. You occasionally see Sword Base or Countdown and I'm not counting all the games like Swat Potato or the flag game because no one likes or even votes for them. If Pinnacle or Uncaged were so unpopular, then why did people consistently vote to play them?

 

Is there anyone or somewhere we can go to complain about this? Or to voice an opinion that these maps should be returned?

[King of Winter]

I liked Pinnacle, but i could do without uncaged

[mikeyr]

So everyone playing Team Swat is happy to basically play just two maps, ie Asylum and Reflection with an occasional Sword Base or Countdown? Really I can't believe this is the case!

[TheLazyGirl]

"community feedback" is that a joke? When I see pinnacle or uncaged in a voting, that's where we go even if I vote for something else. The majority ALWAYS votes for those two. It's a community favorite. If you're gonna remove pinnacle and uncaged, you better remove aslym as well. I've been spawn trapped on aslym more times than uncaged and pinnacle put together. This is absolutes ridiculous.

[mikeyr]

Thanks for the feedback TheLazyGirl. I totally agree I've been absolutely spawn killed to0 many times to mention on Asylum. And if someone is complaining about all the camping being done in Pinnacle, what about the green lift room in Sword Base or the hallway in Reflection? Every map has its own quirks and camping spots.

 

My basic point is that we now have 2 fewer choices to pick from. If you want to take away Pinnacle and Uncaged, replace them with something! I get very tired of playing Asylum and Reflection over and over again to the point where I don't even want to play Team Swat anymore!

 

343 industries are you listening to this? Is this what you want? No players playing Team Swat anymore? Having only a limited choices of maps makes Team Swat very repetitive which is NOT GOOD!

 

Does anyone know of a way to contace 343 industries? An email address? Phone number?

[Geran85]

It is never hard to get votes to enter an Uncaged and Pinnacle match in Team Swat. In fact, sometimes I get stuck playing those maps a little too much because I often wind up playing with people who don't want to vote for anything else. This game type is pretty ridiculously short on map options anyway, so removing any, especially while not introducing more options, is foolish. Whoever is in charge of these decisions needs to learn what he / she is doing.

[Baby Boo]

Personally, I don't think uncaged was bad for swat. I liked it. Pinnacle, however, can be a spawn nightmare if the opposing team knows what they are doing. I also agree with TheLazyGirl on this statement: "If you're going to remove pinnacle and uncaged, you better remove asylum as well." Totally in agreement with her. Because well... asylum is a bit of a spawning hell as well.

[The Director]

Honestly, I'm good with them gone. Both maps were uneven for SWAT. On pinaccle, if you didn't camp you either have to get lucky or you die. A lot. On uncaged, Blue Team spawns with the advantage of having two areas nearby that are major camp zones (elbow and the cage), and are decidedly difficult for red to obtain. Not to mention the advantage of having the reticle against the cliff rather than against the sky (which is the same color as the reticle, if you hadn't noticed). Overall, they are decent slayer maps, but not that great in SWAT simply for the fact that one is a camp haven and the other one gives a one up to blue team (which means that if two teams of equally skilled players went against each other, the ones on red team would lose).

 

Now, what they should do is add some other maps to make up for the hole in the vote.

[Mr Biggles]

they are both good maps, the problem is that they are overpowered on 1 side compared to the other cover wise, so, it wasn't a balanced or symmetrical map in that respect, hence, why people complained and got them taken out.

[FIREN4]

They should just make two new maps to make up for it...Problem solved.

[Azaxx]

"community feedback" is that a joke? When I see pinnacle or uncaged in a voting, that's where we go even if I vote for something else. The majority ALWAYS votes for those two. It's a community favorite. If you're gonna remove pinnacle and uncaged, you better remove aslym as well. I've been spawn trapped on aslym more times than uncaged and pinnacle put together. This is absolutes ridiculous.

 

Really i find the opposite

[Geran85]

I don't see the balance issue that some people claim exists on these maps. I've won and lost against all manner of opponents coming from both red and blue-sides. What they should do is return the maps to the playlist, along with some extras, paying attention to the number of votes they receive in-game instead of pandering to a vocal minority on a little forum on the internet. As stated, it is never difficult to get players to vote these maps into play over the maps that are left in. That says more about the actual gamers' preferences than all of the complaints ever posted on this board.

[Baby Boo]

^ Well, this forum decides a lot of the stuff for halo reach because quite frankly, this is what 343 listens to. So really, it's other gamer's faults for not going on the forums for expressing their own opinions. A lot of us are here because we want to do exactly that: voice our opinions. And that's what most of these threads are for. If players out there REALLY wanted/didn't want these maps, they'd have come here.

[TheLazyGirl]

 

 

Really i find the opposite

 

Then you obviously don't play a lot of swat.

[Geran85]

^ Well, this forum decides a lot of the stuff for halo reach because quite frankly, this is what 343 listens to. So really, it's other gamer's faults for not going on the forums for expressing their own opinions. A lot of us are here because we want to do exactly that: voice our opinions. And that's what most of these threads are for. If players out there REALLY wanted/didn't want these maps, they'd have come here.

 

That is an arrogant and ignorant assumption. It discounts the opinions of paying customers who are either unaware of this website or uninterested in making daily forum activity a part of their gameplay. I personally know xbox owners who play online, but do not even own a pc. However, these people are still paying customers and still deserve to have a voice. What they don't deserve is to have their gaming experience crippled by a video game company's pandering to a vocal minority in a backwater corner of the internet. The people who work at 343 should be smarter than that, and if they aren't then they should hand the franchise over to a company that knows what they're doing.

[Azaxx]

Then you obviously don't play a lot of swat.

 

lazy girl, if you check my stats, i played alot of SWAT, dont make assumptions when you dont know nothing.

[mikeyr]

I guess my basic problem with 343 Industries removing the maps AND not replacing them with anything else is that is basically cripples the game like Geran85 said. I agree 100% with Geran85 in the fact that I had no idea that those maps were removed from Team Swat. I had no input on this decision or that these maps were being considered for removal. In fact, the way I found out was this:

 

1. I went on vacation for week or so and didn't log into to play at all while on vacation.

2. Came back and logged in April 4th for the first time in a week.

3. Played the next three days with a friend (as I usually do) and all we ever go to choose from was Asylum or Reflection. Or Reflection and Asylum. Very occasionally, Sword Base or Countdown would show up as a selection. It was maddening in the fact that Reflection and Asylum were probably shown as selections 90% of the time.

4. After playing probably 50 games of Swat, and not even seeing Pinnacle or Uncaged as a possible selection, I was wondering if something was wrong with my XBOX.

5. So I chatted with XBOX Live support. Twice in fact. First time they told me to delete my gamer tag, clear my cache, reboot, recover my gamer tag and that should bring the maps back. Of course that didn't work.

6. Next time I called after trying the above in 5. and they no other ideas. So basically that's when I started to look on the internet and lo-and-behold I found this website.

 

So even XBOX Live had no idea about this occurring!

 

All the arguments against these maps are invalid in my opinion:

 

1. "It's easy to camp-down Pinnacle and Uncaged": quite frankly the #1 camp spot in ANY map in Swat is the green lift room in Sword Base. Then the corners in the upper level of Countdown are popular camping spots too. So I guess those maps should be removed as well? And quite frankly what exactly is wrong with camping in general? Is this an invalid way to play the game? Different playing styles are somehow not allowed? I'm honestly not good enough to be running around like a tank killing people, but I still enjoy playing Swat!

 

2. "Blue or red spawn points in Pinnacle/Uncaged give one side an advantage": for probably 95% of the people playing Swat, this is a total non-issue. For the MLG people, sure if you spawn on Blue in Pinnacle you might be at a disadvantage (just an example here), but for the majority of the people, it doesn't matter where you spawn or what color you play. We just aren't that good enough to notice or take advantage of the situation. So the 95% of the people who enjoy those maps (because yes they are popular because they were being chosen), are penalized because a small but vocal minority complained about these maps?

 

3. "There is a lot of spawn killing in Pinnacle/Uncaged": there is spawn killing in EVERY board. In my opinion, Asylum is the worst at this fact. I vividly remember playing Asylum one time where I was spawn killed 6 times in a row! Mostly at the blue base in the rocks next to the base. It was like "spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, die etc etc etc. It was crazy! So based on this argument, this board needs to go as well.

 

So based on the above arguments, Sword Base, Countdown, and Asylum need to be removed as well. Leaving us with basically nothing to play?

 

I agree with Geran85 totally, most people that play Swat had no idea that these maps were even considered for removal and had no input on this decision. So now we are left with a game where you have basically just two choices (Reflection or Asylum) and that gets old really quickly. I for one have literally no interest in playing Swat anymore because of the limited map selection.

 

Is there a 343 Industries rep that monitors this board? I’d love to hear from them and have them explain that somehow removing two very popular maps from Swat and leaving their paying customers with very limited choices is good for business and bringing more players to play Team Swat.

 

343 Industries I'm waiting.........

[Archangel Tyrael]

I hated both of them you know why? Spawn killing. Plus it was about who can camp, camp, camp, better.

[Rassl3r]

ISO more maps for swat. Somebody Forge swat maps ty

[TheLazyGirl]

 

 

lazy girl, if you check my stats, i played alot of SWAT, dont make assumptions when you dont know nothing.

Dude, I don't care about your stats. If you "played" a lot of swat that is past tense...we're talking about the present.

[Geran85]

 

1. "It's easy to camp-down Pinnacle and Uncaged": quite frankly the #1 camp spot in ANY map in Swat is the green lift room in Sword Base. Then the corners in the upper level of Countdown are popular camping spots too. So I guess those maps should be removed as well? And quite frankly what exactly is wrong with camping in general? Is this an invalid way to play the game? Different playing styles are somehow not allowed? I'm honestly not good enough to be running around like a tank killing people, but I still enjoy playing Swat!

 

I'm quoting you here because I want to add my voice to some of the points you've raised. On camping, it is a completely valid strategy. If staying out of sight and taking shots is what it takes to win a match, then that is what the player should be doing. Halo isn't about running head-to-head 100% of the time-- if it was, it wouldn't be possible to do it. The worst camping spots are the ones you mentioned (on Sword Base and Countdown), and in Asylum, the edges of the blue and red bases and the tunnels to the left of both bases. The only camping spot on Pinnacle that I have any difficulty countering is the bottom left of the big tower, and there isn't any camping location on Uncaged that I can't get somebody out of unless my team is simply getting overrun. I don't begrudge peple for using those spots. If playing aggressively isn't working for me, I will use any and all of the mentioned spots and a few others to try and turn the score around. You do what you've got to do.

 

2. "Blue or red spawn points in Pinnacle/Uncaged give one side an advantage": for probably 95% of the people playing Swat, this is a total non-issue. For the MLG people, sure if you spawn on Blue in Pinnacle you might be at a disadvantage (just an example here), but for the majority of the people, it doesn't matter where you spawn or what color you play. We just aren't that good enough to notice or take advantage of the situation. So the 95% of the people who enjoy those maps (because yes they are popular because they were being chosen), are penalized because a small but vocal minority complained about these maps?

 

I personally have no spawning preference on either Pinnacle or Uncaged. The majority of the time, from whichever side I start on, I score the First Strike and at least one more kill before I am taken down. This proves false, for me, the 'one side has an advantage' argument.

 

3. "There is a lot of spawn killing in Pinnacle/Uncaged": there is spawn killing in EVERY board. In my opinion, Asylum is the worst at this fact. I vividly remember playing Asylum one time where I was spawn killed 6 times in a row! Mostly at the blue base in the rocks next to the base. It was like "spawn, die, spawn, die, spawn, die etc etc etc. It was crazy! So based on this argument, this board needs to go as well.

 

^^ This. Asylum is incredibly brutal on spawns, and I think everyone who has ever played SWAT with any regularity has had an experience there similar to yours. The victor is quite often determined simply by who can take the middle and pin down the other team first. If I were going to ask for a map to be removed (which I won't, especially without new maps being added) it would be this one.

 

Also, feel free to add me on XBL, mikeyr. My gamer tag is the same as my name here (Geran85).

[Baby Boo]

That is an arrogant and ignorant assumption. It discounts the opinions of paying customers who are either unaware of this website or uninterested in making daily forum activity a part of their gameplay. I personally know xbox owners who play online, but do not even own a pc. However, these people are still paying customers and still deserve to have a voice. What they don't deserve is to have their gaming experience crippled by a video game company's pandering to a vocal minority in a backwater corner of the internet. The people who work at 343 should be smarter than that, and if they aren't then they should hand the franchise over to a company that knows what they're doing.

 

Quite honestly, that's their problem. Don't have a PC? Or a laptop/netbook? Use your phone. Don't have a phone? Use an iPod touch. Don't have one of those? Find alternate means of accessing the internet. None of the above work? To bad. Not our problem. And don't gimme the "Oh, they might not know about the site!" Honestly, that ain't no excuse. They know which company runs the system, so why can't they put 2 and 2 together and realize they MOST LIKELY have a site? A site that, oh I don't know... probably makes the decisions regarding the game? Yeah. And if they don't know the company that runs the game, well, again, that's their problem. If people want their opinion voiced, they can type in the small URL in the search box, and do it themselves.

[Geran85]

Quite honestly, that's their problem. Don't have a PC? Or a laptop/netbook? Use your phone. Don't have a phone? Use an iPod touch. Don't have one of those? Find alternate means of accessing the internet. None of the above work? To bad. Not our problem. And don't gimme the "Oh, they might not know about the site!" Honestly, that ain't no excuse. They know which company runs the system, so why can't they put 2 and 2 together and realize they MOST LIKELY have a site? A site that, oh I don't know... probably makes the decisions regarding the game? Yeah. And if they don't know the company that runs the game, well, again, that's their problem. If people want their opinion voiced, they can type in the small URL in the search box, and do it themselves.

 

Again, ignorant and arrogant statements. Nobody who buys this game should be obligated to be a part of any little elitest club. I won't reply further to this drivel.