Discouraged....And I'm not the only one (Halo 4)

[Constantly]

The competition and quality is relative. Halo 2 and Halo 3 did not have competition to worry about. Show me one FPS or another genre title from the release dates of Halo 2 and Halo 3 that would have threatened it. You can't. Halo Reach had a lot of competition, and a lot of hype behind other titles that dwarfed it. Reach was not nearly hyped as much as Halo 3 or Halo 2. No matter how good Halo was made, or even if Halo 2/3 came out now....there are too many other great titles that take away from it. You don't think for one minute that games like Mass Effect 3 or even Assassins Creed coming up, won't effect populations for other games? Everything is interconnected and it's always easier to point to a game and say it sucked and that's why nobody plays it.

 

Your looking at the whole thing through closed eyes and seeing it only from a hardcore / MLG perspective. At least that much can be assumed since you asked in another thread why we casual or softcore gamers prefer Reach and why we do. Evolution of the games is a needed thing. Do you honestly think CoD 4 or even Modern Warfare would have had the sales and popularity it did, if it had been like CoD 2 and had not changed? Change is what made those titles popular, and the same will happen with Halo. It jut takes a bit more time for some changes to finally be accepted. In the end, if Halo 4 does not work for you, then move on.

 

I can agree to disagree on the sales/popularity.

 

But I think there is a good reason that they're making Halo 4 and not Halo: Reach 2.

 

Honeslty, I think Halo 3.5 would have been more popular than Reach.

[Hydricide]

The competition and quality is relative. Halo 2 and Halo 3 did not have competition to worry about. Show me one FPS or another genre title from the release dates of Halo 2 and Halo 3 that would have threatened it. You can't. Halo Reach had a lot of competition, and a lot of hype behind other titles that dwarfed it. Reach was not nearly hyped as much as Halo 3 or Halo 2. No matter how good Halo was made, or even if Halo 2/3 came out now....there are too many other great titles that take away from it. You don't think for one minute that games like Mass Effect 3 or even Assassins Creed coming up, won't effect populations for other games? Everything is interconnected and it's always easier to point to a game and say it sucked and that's why nobody plays it.

 

Your looking at the whole thing through closed eyes and seeing it only from a hardcore / MLG perspective. At least that much can be assumed since you asked in another thread why we casual or softcore gamers prefer Reach and why we do. Evolution of the games is a needed thing. Do you honestly think CoD 4 or even Modern Warfare would have had the sales and popularity it did, if it had been like CoD 2 and had not changed? Change is what made those titles popular, and the same will happen with Halo. It jut takes a bit more time for some changes to finally be accepted. In the end, if Halo 4 does not work for you, then move on.

 

CoD 4, which many still contest is the best CoD, Gears of War, Cysis, MW2, and Battlefield were all games that competed with Halo 3. Reach does have to compete with better quality updates to those games, but Reach is also a chance to update a game. The problem is there are a great deal more people that are opposed, and vocally so, to Reach that there ever were to the first 3 Halo games. I can still find games on H3 in almost every playlist in less than 30 seconds as well. I am not hear to bash Reach, it was a good game, just not a good Halo game IMO. That shows with the fact that it was a competitive failure, it almost got removed from the MLG tour because so few people watched the games where as with H2 and H3 that was a huge part of their market. Reach does cater to low and middle skilled players because it made an attempt to even the playing field, Bungie said this durning development. In that sense they succeeded, every game is more competitive, but it is not as representative of skill as the other Halo games. As for the new people playing Reach, I still see new players on H3 which is what? 6 years old now. They are not just new account start overs either, they are NEW to halo gamers by their play. Reach does not have the staying power that the other games did. The reason you see more people playing Reach now is because 343 turned off all stat tracking except in game for H3 which demotivated a large portion of the population. Even with that though there is still a healthy population of players. It is safe to say everyone here posting positive or negative about H4 will buy it, it is the next Halo. The problem lies in the fact that they, myself included, feel like that is why we are buying it, not as much because we trust that the MP will be what we want. Everyone wants H4 to be a success, that is why we are posting positive and negative, not to create flame wars, but in hopes that 343 will see what we all think will and won't work. I reiterate, that is why I suggested in another thread that we have a ranked and social system where the ranked playlists are H2/H3 MP with updated graphics, then you will have a happy competitive group (which is bigger than you'd like to admit considering the TU that Reach got was nothing more than an attempt to quell the competitive market that was unhappy with Reach, so the market is big enough to get change), and social playlists with all of the AA's and whatever else they can put in to even out the playing field for casual gamers. There you have a game that puts a big old smile on both market's faces. I think that is the direction they need to go to keep players around to buy their next game(s). If they do one way entirely or the other they will lose one market or the other, so I pray that they do that system and make the BA game I know they are capable of.

[Twinreaper]

Main problem is, all of the hate is always put towards MM....you know there is a campaign and other modes to right? I am tired of hearing about MM complaints personally. Halo wasn't even supposed to have MM or be a FPS..it just so happens it got put in. Everyone is so blinded by MM that they have no concept of the drain MM puts on campaign and other fun modes. I'm all for you guys having your hardcore MLG style play...but you guys never really pause to think about the other gamers who never play MM or the MM modes and stick to campaign and other fun modes solo.

 

Also I am very tired of everyone diminishing peoples skill by posting ridiculous things like "Reach catered to low skill players" and yadda yadda. Way to insult your fellow gamers. If your ego and skill is that great...good for you, there is no need to flame around calling people who play and love Reach low skill or noobs, or whatever. With that kind of posting and attitude, it's no wonder 343i or even Bungie never took any of this community seriously. I'll say it again and say it one last time...this community is way to fractured and diverse to even start to have any direction or right to tell 343i how to produce a Halo title. This community has become a gutter filled cesspool as compared to how it was back 5 to 8 years ago. I should know, I was around and modding the first round of Halo games 10 years ago. I watched the community grow from a handful of gamers to what it is now. This community needs to once again find some solid ground to reform itself on and heal the diversity wounds before it can properly move forward. There has to come a time when we all say "Screw what type of gameplay you and I want...lets come together and have fun and work together to move forward." not more of the same old "I are cuul cuz I am 50 and Reach sucks bloom blah noobs get raped in H3".

[Archangel Tyrael]

Skilled player? Please, you are a captain on Halo 3 with skill 25.

 

I was late into halo 3, i played lots of halo CE, and Reach, i know how to play Halo my friend. Look at my Reach stats + medals. Go ahead. IF you want to fight i am all to happy to bring the hammer down on you.

 

P.S, i am not the only one who plays Halo 3. (my brothers for example their idiots). They don't touch Reach, so go ahead look.

 

http://www.343indust...=ShaggyHOMEBOYZ

 

Don't say something stupid like, wow you aren't MLG. I am just gonna laugh at you bro. Come at me, please. Tired of complaining lil noobs like you and this OP.

[Twinreaper]

Not to rehash an argument...but I almost forgot about this. Halo 3's competition that you stated is false. In order for the title to be conscidered competition it had to release around or right after the title. There were no highly anticipated titles around that time. You could argue Crysis 1 yes, but due to piracy on the PC, it flopped console wise. So take out Crysis. Battlefield was 2114 I think? Not anticipated and sold lower than expected due to the game itself and development pushbacks. CoD as well had Black OPS, but that was released well 8 months before Halo 3. Halo 3 alone had hype out the wazzu and a special appearance at E3 with the trailer for it. Reach may have done better a bit if the PR people at Microsoft were focusing on it.

 

I do agree that reach compared to other titles is weaker by population as a whole. Microsoft is soley to blame for this. At the time Reach was going thru production, Microsoft was worried more about 343i taking the reigns and transitioning the title as well as prepping development for a linear story successor in Halo 4. The marketing people really didn't do a well enough job to hype up Reach, and yes in the end Bungie was more focused on doing what THEY wanted versus giving the community a solid true product that we had come to believe in from them.

[Hydricide]

Main problem is, all of the hate is always put towards MM....you know there is a campaign and other modes to right? I am tired of hearing about MM complaints personally. Halo wasn't even supposed to have MM or be a FPS..it just so happens it got put in. Everyone is so blinded by MM that they have no concept of the drain MM puts on campaign and other fun modes. I'm all for you guys having your hardcore MLG style play...but you guys never really pause to think about the other gamers who never play MM or the MM modes and stick to campaign and other fun modes solo.

 

Also I am very tired of everyone diminishing peoples skill by posting ridiculous things like "Reach catered to low skill players" and yadda yadda. Way to insult your fellow gamers. If your ego and skill is that great...good for you, there is no need to flame around calling people who play and love Reach low skill or noobs, or whatever. With that kind of posting and attitude, it's no wonder 343i or even Bungie never took any of this community seriously. I'll say it again and say it one last time...this community is way to fractured and diverse to even start to have any direction or right to tell 343i how to produce a Halo title. This community has become a gutter filled cesspool as compared to how it was back 5 to 8 years ago. I should know, I was around and modding the first round of Halo games 10 years ago. I watched the community grow from a handful of gamers to what it is now. This community needs to once again find some solid ground to reform itself on and heal the diversity wounds before it can properly move forward. There has to come a time when we all say "Screw what type of gameplay you and I want...lets come together and have fun and work together to move forward." not more of the same old "I are cuul cuz I am 50 and Reach sucks bloom blah noobs get raped in H3".

 

Okay, let me emphasize what I have said and see if it is understood this time, I did NOT say that all of the things that have been proposed, I do not happen to like them and you will not change my mind. I do not think they should be scrapped, they should be in social because they ARE shackles to skill. Frank O'Donnell even said that (in reference to forerunner vision) that competitive gamers who have map awareness will likely scrap it and opt for other abilities. That is not so subtilely saying what I assumed it was, a way to even the playing field by giving new gamers the same ability that others had worked hard to attain on their own. That is frustrating for those who have put that time in because it beckons the question "what is the point of my playing a lot to get better if I am not rewarded by being able to win?" That is why I said keep it to social, or even in it's own playlist, but you are arguing to basically give a big F U to gamers like me who invested hundreds of hours in gaming, and more specifically, Halo gaming. I also never said that people that play Reach are unskilled. I have friends that are extremely good at both games, and they will say the same thing, Reach has mechanics that do not emphasize skill, they inhibit it. Bungie acknowledged it when they said they wanted to even the playing field. As stated, that does NOT make all who play Reach unskilled just as it does not make gamers that play H3 good. It is two markets, and Halo 3 which is still being played by a large community, they should not be thrown to the wayside because a portion of the gaming community likes Reach. They should try to capture both markets by, like I have said, having two play types, a social with all of the AA's and whatever else to make it as entertaining to all as it can be. Then there should be a set of ranked, hardcore, w/e u want to call it playlists that cater to the competitive gamers that want the old Halo style gameplay. IDK why you are bring campaign into this, I am sure it will be fine, Halo campaigns are always superior and they have Spartan Ops now for gamers who don't want to play MP. That said, the largest market is in MP. As for what Halo was originally intended to be, that is nice but I hardly see the relevance in it, Halo is what it is. Finally, no, the games I listed were competitors with Halo 3, no they were not released the same year for the most part, but they were being played in H3's lifespan and H3 still had a huge population throughout all of those games releases. Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that people who play reach are bad, MP is the only thing and everything else should be ignored, I never said I was cool, and I never said my gameplay preferences were the best. What I said is there are two markets, BOTH should have recognition.

[Ccup-mann]

Can people stop ranting about halo turning into cod? There are 10000 threads already about quick-to-judge people ranting.

[Constantly]

Can people stop ranting about halo turning into cod? There are 10000 threads already about quick-to-judge people ranting.

 

Good. That's what forums are for. Maybe 343i is paying attention.

[ShockGazm]

Shockgazm your macros suck.

 

And yes the 343 is stupid for this bull******y

 

Macros?

 

Oh, and 343i are not stupid at all. People who judge the game and call it s*** are the stupid ones, namely you every now and then when you comment.